Joe Zahaitis: I think the biggest thing that cannabis dispensaries still to this day run up against is, oh, those guys.
Oh, the ones that are dealing in that illegal product. The State has decided it's not for whatever reason and to whatever level. And to that end, I think that we as a, as an industry, both payments as well as just generally in the business world, owe them that same level of respect.
Tom Mulhern: Welcome back to the Kayak podcast. Today I have a conversation with Joe Zahaitis. He works for Bankcard International Group, which is a payment solution company working in some of these high risk industries, specifically in cannabis. And I first met Joe at MjBizCon. They were the booth right across from Kaya Push.
We got to know each other as you do at those conventions and hearing what services they offered, hearing his story. Also, the fact that Joe is a podcaster himself. He's got a great podcast that is launching. He's a radio host. He does a whole bunch of really fun and creative things.
We had a really good conversation about, kind of the future of the payment industry. They actually offer a pin based debit system, so the same as you would use your debit card to buy a Slurpee at 7-11, you can go and pay for cannabis in a dispensary using their system, which is huge.
we dove into kind of his history, the future of payments and some of the other options out there. We talked about compliance and Joe was so much fun to talk to. we could have, we could have gone on all afternoon talking, but I hope you enjoy this conversation with JOe Zahaitis from Bankcard International Group.
Tom Mulhern: Joe Zahaitis is a relationship focused, service-oriented entrepreneur, sales leader, speaker consultant, radio broadcaster, woodworker, and trusted advisor to retail merchants and canna business owners.
Through an immersive study of credit card processing business and laser focus on customer service, Joe has achieved a stellar reputation within the payment arena and earned his company Bankcard International Group, a top industry standing. Bankcard International Group, AKA a BIG provides high risk payment processing the way it should be.
Dependable, legitimate, and service oriented. Big was created by a group of like-minded individuals who believe that every legal business deserves respectful service and services designed to help them succeed. So Joe, welcome to the Kaya Cast podcast. Man, it's great to have you on this show.
Joe Zahaitis: Glad, I'm glad to be here. Finally, we met at uh, MjBizCon, and I'm just excited about this ever since that day. It was awesome. Can't wait.
Tom Mulhern: Well, we were staring at each other cuz we were across the aisle from each other. And, you guys looked like you were having way too much fun over there.
Joe Zahaitis: It's a great crew. It's an awesome crew.
Tom Mulhern: Joe, why don't you tell me a bit about your background and how did you get involved in cannabis? Because you've been in, payment solutions for over 30 years, so how did you end up with all of US cannabis people?
Joe Zahaitis: payments is something I got into and I've never been able to get out of. I tried twice, but I failed successfully twice to get out. So I've been doing this for about 30 years and Mo most recently I was considering retirement and considering kind of just, slowing it down
I got a new opportunity, a new idea, and a new idea and a way of doing this cannabis processing, cuzThere's been a lot of solutions that have been out there that have, as I'm, as you all know in the cannabis industry, have come and. And this one, when I started looking at it, I'm like, done right.
This one could have some sustainability and some long tail to it. So, I came on as president of the company and we've been having a great time ever since.
Tom Mulhern: Well, and I love the fact that kind of, in the bio it said you, you guys believe that legal businesses deserve respectful service, and so, You know, you're providing it to all of these legal businesses that just can't get funding. Like that must be such a challenge for those businesses that are out there.
Joe Zahaitis: what I love about the industry and you, you get to a question to it later on, but I'm gonna answer it now, the collaboration and just the social nature.
Of kind of a social equity and everybody is doing things holistically and with great passion for their industry, for their product, and just for what they bring to the marketplace. And our goal is to make sure that those voices get heard and those people can have a, a, hopefully a legitimate and compliant place that they can, hang their hats.
Tom Mulhern: Well, and I definitely want to go to compliance, but you said you've been in this space for so long. Can you kind of give me like a, a 1 0 1 an introduction to payment solutions, specifically in the cannabis industry over the past, however many years that it's been legal.
So what has kind of changed and, how have you kind of seen been a part of that change happening over the past few years?
Joe Zahaitis: Back, back, back, back in the day. Can you talk about the OG day of, of payment of cannabis payment processing? There were solutions that were out there and many people were a part of them where send in an application, credit card's fine, mark on it, that it's marijuana and everything is fine.
Well, that's right up until Visa and MasterCard walked in and or the, the OCC walked in and said, yeah, no. And they shut 'em down. And then you've had a lot of other solutions that have come and gone and come and gone and come and gone. but what has changed from our perspective as a company is we now vet the solutions way more than they vet us as being a sales agent of theirs. And we are really looking for solutions. And that's kind of why it came on, because this has such a payments history industry backdrop to it that there, you know, we really brought a, a fine focus.
How does it work? how well does it work? Why does it work? what are they doing? And made sure that, from our perspective, it checked the boxes to make sure we're getting the compliance channel met. And that was a big deal back a long time ago. Kind of was, wild, wild west.
Everybody did everything right up until they got shut down.
Tom Mulhern: It still sometimes feels like the wild, wild west still, like, you know, with states coming online. It almost feels like panic almost when a new state comes online. There's excitement, but there's also like, how the, how the hell do we do this? So do you have a lot of those people coming to you saying, this is brand new, and you're like, Nope, no, we've been working through this for a while, or,
Joe Zahaitis: What we've seen, what I've seen in the, in the marketplace is the minute a new state comes online, sure there's a mad dash, both from the dispensary perspective looking for a solution, but also the solutions that are out there looking to hook people and get them onboarded quick enough so that, not that they can't leave, but so that they've got 'em and hopefully they don't leave.
Our biggest challenge has been organizationally is ours is an educational, we try to provide people with options, tell them. You know, it's your choice, your option to decide what you want to do. I can only present to you what I think is the best solution for you based on what you're doing and what I think is the best solution for the industry.
But then it's up to the individual business owners and that's where we've seen where a state comes on. Everybody's thought about how they're gonna handle their grow, how they're gonna handle their Cast off, how they're gonna handle their, you know, their lighting and everything else. Not a lot of 'em have thought about the flow of funds.
Not even the payment model, even how the, even if it's cash only, how it's gonna flow through the organization. And that's something that everyone needs to, you know, consider.
I, I would recommend, and I dunno if I can plug people or not here, but not, but uh, there's gentlemen, we know Tony Gallo, who kind of works in that security space, known him forever, and from that funds flow, that operational flow perspective, he's a great guy to kind of help set that up from a dispensary.
Tom Mulhern: Tony's awesome. He's been on the podcast and yeah, so we, we love Sapphire Risk. They're great, great partners of Kaya Push. So I want to, I want you to dive into your solution a little bit. So how is your solution unique to other payment solutions on the market? like you said, we were at MJ biz.
There's all of these different payment solutions and you're always kind of like, does, does that actually work? But what makes you guys unique?
Joe Zahaitis: What makes our PIN based debit solution unique is the fact that it's actually not unique what we're doing as a Pin Debit Solution for the cannabis industry. Is running a Pin Debit transaction exactly as it runs in the retail space.
So when you walk into a grocery store, a convenience store or pharmacy, and you buy product, you walk up to the counter with $28 and 16 cents worth of product, and you put your debit card into a machine and you pay $28 and 16 cents and whatever, taxes and stuff like that, and you walk out with your product there's a receipt that comes with it and you don't, that's, that's exactly what you do.
You affect the transaction. You walk out, the cash is deducted from your bank account, pays for the product set, and you walk on your way. And that's exactly the transaction we're running in a dispensary model. And so much so that the actual name of the dispensary is on the cardholder statement and on the receipt.
And the actual address of the dispensary is on the cardholder statement and on the receipt as well.
Tom Mulhern: So for the customer, it's a seamless transaction. It's how they would go to Target and buy, you know, whatever they need there. It's the same at their dispensary.
Joe Zahaitis: There's no additional hops jumps. You don't have to do anything different than you would do in a normal retail environment. You are just affecting a transaction just like you would at any of those locations, just like you said. Yep. And that's, that, that's what makes it unique is that it is not an attempt of, of any kind of workaround.
It is just a true pin based debit transaction.
Tom Mulhern: And you guys offer payment solutions, not just for. In-person shopping also for e-commerce and delivery
Joe Zahaitis: you can do e-commerce. I mean, if you think about e-commerce in a traditional sense. It's a credit card online and then your Amazon product gets delivered to you or whatever you bought. You can't do that cuz you can't obviously use credit cards in the cannabis space. You can order online and then pay at pickup.
And that obviously works with our Pin Debit Solution wonderfully because you only have to have a driver go out with product. And a, a terminal that represents it looks very much like a, an iPhone or a cell phone. So that works really, really well. In another environment, you could do order online and you could pay with ACH, which is another great solution that's out there.
Also from our perspective, one of those that I would say is, compliant and kind of checks all of the boxes, but you really can't do a traditionally e-commerce transaction because that implies that I've bought it online and it's being shipped to me or just delivered to me. And as you know, from a cannabis dispensary delivery perspective, you have to approve who you are when, when it's being delivered.
Tom Mulhern: So are there any like legitimate credit card options available to cannabis operators,
Joe Zahaitis: this is a real easy answer. No, and don't matter what they tell you, no matter what they say. I again, no.
Tom Mulhern: But are there people out there that are claiming that there's legitimate credit card?
Joe Zahaitis: There may or may not be, you can find them on your own. I won't say that I haven't seen a few, but I have, and we, we act actively avoid them because, you, we talked earlier in this about how, some coming they go I have a, a friend of mine who shall remain nameless, but she might be my sister who calls me on a regular basis and will tell me I'm her location where she lives, which I won't say where.
It's our cannabis friendly state. Oh look, I just paid credit card again. I said, tell me next week when you walk in, how that works out for you. And she'll usually say, yeah, they're, they're just taking cash again.
Tom Mulhern: So speaking of cash, what are some of the biggest dangers of running an all cash cannabis business? Like if you say, I don't know about this Pin Debit System. Like what could happen if you're just like, we're just gonna do cash. What, what? Why not just do it that way?
Joe Zahaitis: I mean, you can, and we have clients that that do, and we, we talk to 'em all the time. Again, from my perspective, and this is just from coming from the, the credit card or a, a card handling, a a Pin Debit Solution, you, you've got a low weight, high value product in the cannabis that's in your dispensary, and you have a low weight, high value product called cash in your dispensary.
And I, that for me represents, I think, a security risk that you wanna mitigate as much as possible. What we try to do, and that's obviously the whole point of the pin based debit solution is it displaces that cash.
So you're probably still gonna run a certain amount of cash out of your operation even though you have a PIN Debit solution. But it will be less, And certainly in a delivery environment where, you know, the consumer on the far end is using a debit card to pay for it, you can send a driver out with product and no cash.
And that obviously, you know, makes from a security perspective, their job's a lot easier because they're only traveling with product.
Tom Mulhern: Where in the like process of setting up a business should, should a prospective dispensary owners start thinking about
how are we gonna even get people to pay for this?
Joe Zahaitis: As any vendor would say, I need to be one of the first ones you think about, and I don't think that's true. I think certainly once you've gotten your license and once you've picked a location and once you're beginning your buildout, I think one of the things, and there are a lot of providers, we've mentioned a few of them.
In the space who can help you with that? In terms of the physical setup, I think one of the things that would be wise for any owner of a dispensary to do is how many checkout lanes are you gonna have? What does that look like? How far apart are they spaced? What does that look like? And then start, you don't have to physically build it in if you don't want to, but I would contend it would be a good idea to think about how you're gonna build in that consumer experience so that it is as much like a normal retail outside of cannabis as possible.
I've seen those that will build in their point of sale system or or other ERP solutions and not make any consideration even for a cash drawer and they're in a cash environment. I would say it's earlier in that process of certainly a build out, but not like day one. We'd love to talk to everybody day one, but I, it'll, that's something we can hold off and, and do it during your buildout and then get you set up.
Tom Mulhern: Now is your Pin Debit system, is it available in every state where it's legal or are there certain places that you guys kind of focus on or, cuz this is for, for some dispensary owners, they may say, I can, we can do debit cards in our store. I didn't even know this was an option.
Joe Zahaitis: The only thing that affects true Pin Debit Solution acceptance from a location perspective is where you may have pockets of. Poorly integrated debit cards just within the marketplace. But yes, wherever there is a state that has both medical rec or both we can certainly do the processing for Pin Debit.
I have not found a state yet that is, restricting that. We have a couple states out there that are saying, certain payment types will be the only thing they allow. I, we'll see if that plays out over a long term. Cuz cash has gotta be allowed. I can't, I can't believe they're not gonna allow cash.
If you're located in a major money center, secondary city state, that has pretty much everywhere. If, if, if you can go into a grocery store and use a debit card, yeah, you can do that with a dispensery.
Tom Mulhern: Now looking towards the future, what do you kind of see as the future of payments in this industry? And how are, how are you guys leading the charge? Because, you, you seem to be cutting edge, coming up with new ideas that are established, ideas that just work. And so how are you guys kind of on that cutting edge of, of the future of the payments industry?
Joe Zahaitis: I mean, our goal, obviously is always to have a compliant transaction model. So the, the first piece from us, from our, from our perspective is the compliance side of it. Are we doing everything both transparently from a federal regulatory perspective as well as state, but also compliance in terms of checking all of those boxes.
So, I mean, that's kind of the first piece in terms of where we are going. I think from an industry perspective, everybody hopes that this comes to some form of national legitimacy, and if we wanna call that federal acceptance, great. I think that that's gonna happen. I think it would be anybody, anybody who says that it's a year, two years, five years, 20 years, it's all crystal ball.
It's gonna depend on what is decided, in DC and, and kind of how it's crafted. So to say we even know what it's gonna look like. I, it's, I don't know. I mean, it would all be a guess as to what it's gonna look like.
Our goal is to make sure we are positioned to support our clients both now and in the future.
If you look at the way our terminals are set up, it is a hard switch, if you will, virtual, though it may be that does not allow credit cards to run through our terminals at all, but that's not to say that without a network level switching it on, that, that could not be enabled. It can't be done at the store level.
Manager level cannot be done at my level, and it cannot even be done one. So at the network level. So I might point it just from a security perspective. No one can accidentally switch it on. But once that is available, it is something that we can enable. And the goal there and our interest there is you have that consistent clerk training.
Again, you have a stand beside solution. Now you're just adding another card type.
Tom Mulhern: A, a pin based debit system is bank to bank. Right. That's So how do you find banks to work with that are gonna work in the cannabis space?
Joe Zahaitis: Joe picks up the phone and makes phone calls. Actually the whole team does. It's not just me. We have banks in every one of the states and usually the states that are either have gone rec or are going rec. There is a ready supply of banks that have an interest in banking these clients, which is great.
We're seeing a significant uptick in the acceptance of banks that have an interest in banking this community. So finding a bank, talking to a bank, and talking to a bank about our solution is getting easier day over day.You have to go out and you have to meet with 'em. And bankers like to talk before they, get to know you and trust you before they're, they'll embrace any solution.
But from our perspective, it's, it's getting easier the further along we go.
Tom Mulhern: Are those systems available for payroll cuz I know a lot of dispensaries pay ha end up having to pay their employees in cash. So can that pin based system be used for that as well? Like I'm just kind of thinking of all of the issues that we've run into or or discussions I've had with people and it sounds like you guys are offering solutions to a lot of those pain points for people.
Joe Zahaitis: I can neither confirm it nor deny my ability to handle some of that, because we're actually building some solutions to tackle that specifically for the cannabis industry. But there are providers out there right now that can assist with that.
If a bank has a cannabis compliant program, usually they're open to finding some way other than cash to support the employees that are there. And I would say that that's, whether they do or don't, that sometimes it, it takes a while to wrestle through the bank. But I think universally everyone is looking for solutions that can mitigate the cash out of the, out of the equation as much as possible.
Tom Mulhern: it's almost like the, the rules as they were established, were established to protect one piece. Not taking into account the cascade of all of the other areas like payroll, like insurance, like just leasing and renting of space.
Joe Zahaitis: Those, it's not that they weren't considerations, but they were almost like, oh yeah, that as well. And, and now we're backfilling to try and come up with solutions that now meet regulations, guidelines, whether it be state or federal in the absence of something that was written down to say, and here is how you do that.
Tom Mulhern: How does your solution that, that you guys are offering help dispensaries stay compliant? what are some ways that you guys help them with stay compliant cuz that's so important to keep your license and everything.
Joe Zahaitis: From our perspective, just our solution piece, not talking about any other parts, again, in this cash or workflow of, of owning and running a dispensary, but just from the card acceptance of, of pin based debit, you've got a transaction that's affected down to the penny. So from a reconciliation part, at the end of the day, if I sold $25 and 35 cents worth of product and I have a receipt for that, I know exactly what I sold there.
There's no, no reconciliation as to how much product went out versus how much income did I bring in. The second piece is we have a full-blown backend reporting system that maintains. All of those data sets, both for the dispensary as well as for their depository institution. One of our requirements is that every dispensary that we work with have a cannabis compliant bank account, meaning their DDA depository institution knows that they're a dispensary and is fully compliant in filing the proper SARS reporting on their behalf.
So that reporting that we have in our system helps those banks to do their job and maintain that reconciliation for the dispensary.
Tom Mulhern: Our goal from the perspective of the dispensary in terms of you and the product sets that we're bringing to the table are to make sure that they are compliant. Our acquiring institution, goes through OCC audits to make sure that they are checking all of the boxes in terms of what they're doing and affecting these transactions for these dispensaries.
Joe Zahaitis: And I think as long as everyone, and that's the kind of the piece we're trying to bring to the table, as long as everyone in the chain is being transparent about how they're working within the system. Everyone is just trying to do this in a way that makes not only makes legal sense in terms of trying to check all the right boxes, but makes common sense too.
I mean, we're just trying to, we're trying to affect commerce here. We're not trying to, build a rocket ship to go to the moon. We're just really trying to get commerce done and make sure that all of those bodies that need to be aware of what we're doing are appropriately informed.
Tom Mulhern: Now looking ahead as well. What's kind of on the horizon for you guys? Like what are some of the new, exciting things that you're working on that you're really excited about that, maybe you can give us a sneak peek of some of the things coming out from you guys.
Joe Zahaitis: You mentioned some of the pieces of the puzzle in terms of how dispensaries handle some of their staffing and other pieces of it. You kind of alluded to it in terms of dispensaries and how they pay for a pad of paper or, or, or other elements within just the normal running of their operation. I know most dispensaries send someone out with a couple hundred bucks in cash to buy stationary goods.
Well, if you could do that another way that'd be great. And I might have a solution either on the horizon or pretty much here that you can do that. But yeah, we have a number of things that are coming to the fore that we wanna, that we want people to be able to do in effect a B2B ACH solution. I mean, those are pretty prevalent out in the marketplace and they're widely accepted.
We have our own in an effort to assist both the, the cultivator and the dispensary to maintain that level of control and that level of reporting back and forth and keeping it in the same ecosphere. It's not in, not from a competitive perspective, but just keeping it in the same ecosphere so that it can be tracked, traced, and reported appropriately.
That's one of the things we're bringing to the table.
Tom Mulhern: Now you work with tons of different cannabis retailers out there. What is the biggest challenge currently facing cannabis retailers? And it could be specific to payments, but maybe in general as well. Like you've probably talked to tons of different retailers out there. What are you seeing that they're, they keep running into.
Joe Zahaitis: I mean, if I were to encapsulate into one that we see on a regular basis, it would be, and I, I, it's. It's almost trite to say, accepting and respecting a cannabis industry, whether it be cultivator or dispensary as a legitimate business that has a right to, do their business and process. I think the biggest thing that cannabis dispensaries still to this day run up against is, oh, those guys.
Oh, the ones that are dealing in that illegal product. The State has decided it's not for whatever reason and to whatever level. And to that end, I think that we as a, as an industry, both payments as well as just generally in the business world, owe them that same level of respect. And I think if I were to say one thing, certainly you'd, I'd love to say payments, but it's not just that.
I think it's so much more than that. And I think that that's, from our perspective, the part that we keep working towards and fighting towards is making sure that dispensaries on a whole, have a legitimate voice. In the creation of their space and the furtherance of their space.
Tom Mulhern: Well, and we talk about like destigmatizing and stigma and all of that, but we don't talk about like respect of a business owner, like in their community, their local community. They don't, they're, we talk about the stigma, but we don't talk about like that lack of respect that they run into, but then when you actually see the impact of dispensaries on their communities, they're cleaning up the neighborhoods, they're, they're bringing security in, they're doing all these sort of things that actually can benefit their communities.
And I think it's gonna take a while for that to change. But yeah, like you said, like you guys are helping legitimate businesses have the solutions that they.
Joe Zahaitis: Well one of the things that's always impressed me about the cannabis industry as a whole is how. Focused they are. I mean, sure every dispensary owner wants to make money ensure you know that they believe in the product that, and the the value it brings to the table. But for the most part, everybody I've met within the cannabis industry has a strong social focus as well.
And to me that's refreshing.
From social equity to sustainability to, and everyone has different passions that they're pursuing. And I, I'm, I'm with you, man. Like I've seen, I've seen more passion for the social good in the cannabis industry than a lot of different industries. And I don't even know these, but I, I see them at the shows. You and I go to everything from nitrogen footprint to, you know, biodegradable packaging to what kind of organics they're using in terms of fertilizer. I mean, it's the, the amount of chemical and just industrial energy that is pouring into this and from an innovation perspective is unbelievably fantastic.
Tom Mulhern: What are some tips that you would have to help a cannabis business grow and scale their business?
Joe Zahaitis: One thing I always tell everybody who attends my sessions question everything. Question us. Hold me to task for what you think, you know, I'm doing. We are doing. But do that for every one of your vendors and anybody who comes in the door and is pitching you a solution, question everything. if there are things within the context of their process and it doesn't need to be payments, anywhere within your the business model, if they can't tell you how something is done or how it's brought about or who they're working with or why certain things have to happen a certain way, if they can't give you that descriptor and you have to kind of take it on faith, that would be my biggest concern.
I think you should question everything.
Tom Mulhern: In any business, that's a, that's a good insight because there's always been those shysters that come along and like, oh, I can, I can solve all your issues. Then you start to ask, okay, what is your solution? And they don't have the answers. So question everything.
Some
Joe Zahaitis: of them sound really good, and again, I'm, I'm not even talking in the payment space because again, we've been at a number of. shows together. And I, I hear some, and I watch some of the pitches that are on the show floor and the people that you talk, and it, it just, it's like something's not ringing true here and you just question it.
Don't be afraid to, you are the business owner. You're the one who is building it. And don't be afraid to get a second opinion from anybody. I think. And then the, the other part that I would say, if I were to give anybody a word of advice, and this is, this is from Joe. This is not even for my business.
Make sure you have options. I've been in the payment space for 30 years and the number of clients I've had, even outside of the cannabis industry, who by virtue of their choices specifically to payments, but just in general, that paint themselves into a corner in terms of the, the lack of now options and choices they have down the road.
Don't ever let yourself do that. Make sure that you always have options, because you need to be able to hold your vendors accountable and say, I don't have to stay with you. I have options. When you, when you paint yourself into a corner where you don't have options up and down the chain, guess what? You don't have options.
I don't know that I would do that.
Tom Mulhern: Joe, now this has been so good that you guys have such a great solution for those dispensary owners. How can listeners kind of find out about the work you're doing, get connected to you, get your pin based system in their dispensary, like how do people reach out to you and find out more about what you do?
Joe Zahaitis: You can go to my LinkedIn profile. There's not a lot of Zahaitis in the world. You can certainly find me. Anyone can reach out to me, my partner Brett Taylor, find the company, Bankcard International Group. Go to our website or go to our LinkedIn.
We're kind of all over social media, so there shouldn't be too many of 'em that you go to that you can't find us. I am always up for a great conversation and willing, I, you and I could talk for hours. But I'm always up for a good conversation with any single dispensary, cultivator. If you're looking for a solution, if you don't even know where to go, we, we talk to people.
That's what I get paid to do. I love it. I've done it for 30 years and I will continue to do it for till I can't anymore.
Tom Mulhern: I think it's time to trade, so we'll definitely have to have , Tommy Truong our CEO on your podcast so that you guys can talk about some, maybe, maybe we'll wait until some of these solutions that you hinted at are more available. Joe, thank you so much for being on the podcast and for, sharing your experience in the payment space.
thanks so much for being on the show.
Thank you for having, it was a pleasure meeting you guys at MjBizCon. I'm sure we'll see you again. It was, it was awesome. I appreciated being here and we will definitely get you guys on our podcast here in the near future. We'll return the favor and. Hear about what you guys do for a living as well.
Tom Mulhern: Talking with Joe, I'm just reminded of the fact that compliance in your payment system is so important. If you don't have a system that makes those, those payments flawless and easy, but also compliant from start to finish. Having a system that really is able to track the money coming in and the money going out and, and integrated into your point of sales system, you're able to have that business intelligence that you just can't get if you're running your, your business on cash.
So thank you Joe for sharing all about Bankcard International Group and for really giving us some options. And I loved his advice of having options, make sure that you have options and really in the payment solutions side of things, I think that Bankcard International Group is a great option. So reach out to them. We'll have all of their links in our bio and make sure you go check them out Also.
Keep an eye on their podcast because we're gonna have our founder, Tommy Troung on the show. And Joe is so excited to have a conversation, so we'll make sure that we put that out there when Tommy's on the show. But thanks again for listening to the Kaya Cast Podcast. And I, I hope that your business is growing and scaling and that you're learning new things every co from every conversation that we have with different business leaders and and thought leaders in the industry.
