The Politics of Cannabis: Robert Hoban on Power, Policy, and Progress

Episode Transcript

Robert Hoban: [00:00:00] I can't believe how far the debate has come. Where, I was at a debate in in the University of Denver where I was teaching at the time. Mitt Romney was debating for the president. When he was running years ago, and somebody from the Cannabis, which was the Denver Post Cannabis publication at the time said, Mr.

Romney, what do you plan to do about cannabis reform? And he looked at him and scoffed and said, ask me a real question. He didn't say that, but that was the tone of it. You can't do that today. You've got, look what Harris did. Even Trump came out and took a formal position. You can't dodge the issue anymore.

Speaker: Welcome to the Kaya Cast, the podcast for cannabis businesses looking to launch, grow, and scale their operations.

Tommy: Bob, thank you so much for joining us today.

Robert Hoban: Oh, it's my pleasure. I'm happy to be here, Tommy. Thanks for having me and Happy New Year to you.

Tommy: Happy New Year's. I spent considerable time looking into your background and [00:01:00] diving into some of the conversations that you had previously. But for everyone listening, can you can tell everybody what your background is?

Robert Hoban: Yeah, yes, certainly. I was one of the first, if not the first cannabis lawyer. Some people call me the CanSigliere. I I've been in the space for the better part of the last 16, 17 years in the commercial regulated cannabis space. Built my own law firm, the Hogan Law Group. I've taught, I've worked around the world, I've drafted policy for over 35 countries.

I currently I stepped away from practicing law back in March full time, I'm still affiliated with Clark Hill, I still help out and advise there, but I don't service clients and I no longer practice law, right? These days I find myself, consulting with governments around the world as I've done for, like I said, the past

past 10 or 12 years writing laws, advising on cannabis policy. And I work as a fractional executive in some global cannabis supply chain companies. One in particular out of Morocco. [00:02:00] So that is that's where I find my myself spending time these days. And also proud to say that I begin teaching this semester at UNLV in its brand new first of a kind cannabis.

Policy Institute which is which is up and running and lots of exciting things to come out of there.

Tommy: Wow. So this institute Where in the cannabis industry or what aspects of the cannabis industry is this institute specializing in?

Robert Hoban: So cannabis policy, right? Now here's the thing. When we talk about cannabis policy, some people think of the cannabis industry as the dispensary system, right? And to a certain extent, when you're talking about cannabis policy, people get caught up in that lane. This must mean regulations and laws at the state level that facilitate licensing for cultivations, manufacturers, and dispensaries, right?

Retail. But as I And want to say I believe that's just one aisle in the cannabis grocery store, the dispensary system. That's only one. To answer [00:03:00] your question in the most long winded way possible, it's, their perspective has been, Alright, let's talk about cannabis regulation, meaning, marijuana dispensary regulation, state efficiencies, what are standardized issues, we were looking, for example, at, is the Just posted on this today on a couple of the social media sites is the Las Vegas Strip and those businesses losing out?

Are they losing out on money because they don't allow delivery to the resorts on the Strip, the casinos and, they facilitated a policy discussion about that particular topic as an example. So that's really been the core focus. But part of my job is, because I've been teaching at, I taught at University of Denver, Rowan Oak College, University of Vermont, Hofstra, and now at UNLV.

It's an interesting perspective to me to say, look. It's not just dispensaries and regulations. It's so much broader than that, especially when you throw the U. N. into the mix and what's happening at our federal level. So yes, let's start. They [00:04:00] start with a focus on the regulatory system that involves dispensaries, but my hope and goal and my role is to expand that discussion to the entire cannabis grocery store, so to speak.

Tommy: Wow. You're, so I'm talking to the right person.

Robert Hoban: Maybe not. We'll find out.

Tommy: You're knees deep in policies, regulations in the U. S. Where do you see us headed in 2025 and beyond?

Robert Hoban: It's a great question. I think what, where we are right now is it's taken the better part of the last 18 months for people to get their head around the fact that hemp derivatives are here to stay, including, but not limited to intoxicating or, psychoactive hemp derivatives, such as Delta eight, Delta nine, so forth and so on.

So you've got a brand new. Administration being sworn in about, 10 days or so here. You've got a policy, [00:05:00] the 2018 Farm Bill, which was signed by soon to be and former President Trump. And they take credit for creating a 23 billion hemp derivative industry. And on top of that, we've got a 30 plus or minus billion dollar dispensary industry.

Then we've got pharmaceutical layered on top. You've got medical marijuana layered on top. You've got international laid on top. You've got schedule three movement afoot. It's a really exciting time for cannabis and where I see things going and why I started with hemp. I don't have a dog in this fight.

I'm an observer. I serviced clients in both sectors. I was always about 50 50 in terms of. hemp and marijuana clients over the last 15, 18 years of my legal practice. But it's an interesting thing to see that in effect that. The Republicans have created this concept of red state weed.

You're not going to see dispensaries as we see it and know it in many of these red states, at least anytime soon. And that created the opportunity to produce these [00:06:00] intoxicating hemp derivatives, which are in the marketplace. Which, yes, there's bad actors in every sector, but let's make no mistake about it.

These things are safe and pure, and there are government standards by which they're produced, if the actors are doing it right. So I see that becoming a major focal point. of where things go. I see the scheduling of the rescheduling moving forward at the federal level. That presents some challenging things in and of itself for operators.

It does free up 280E the tax implications for these marijuana licenses. And by the way, I don't mean to offend when I use the word marijuana. I'm a technical nerd. The industry in my mind is the cannabis industry and you've got hemp and marijuana, the legally defined technical terms. So if I say marijuana, It's not because I don't know that people don't like to use that word.

It's not because I'm trying to be offensive. It's just, that's the right term. And frankly, when people say cannabis and hemp, it drives me nuts because there's no such thing. It's all cannabis. My point being is I see things moving in a [00:07:00] very positive way for the cannabis industry overall both sectors included.

And I also see major international opportunities. Now, if you throw into the mix, the fact that RFK Jr. At least based on this morning's reports does appear to have enough votes to get confirmed as the head of HHS, which is the parent agency for our FDA, which, of course, oversees, things that are ingested by humans.

And he's taken prominent public positions previously about access to a wide variety of plant based medicines, not the least of which is scheduling and rescheduling marijuana. My point being, I see things moving in that direction. Where the crossroads is really going to be is The pragmatic crossroads, where does Schedule 3 and the Farm Bill intersect, and how can the stakeholders on both sides of that equation come to an understanding that they have to exist at the same [00:08:00] time, they have to co exist, because there's no chance that you're going to take policy wise, marijuana dispensaries and Put them out of the mix, and there's no chance you're going to take hemp derivatives and get rid of them.

That's a major side, but the interesting thing is, that's on the private sector side. The policy side, the policy makers appear ready to go as it relates to these policy changes and paving the path for more commercial successes. And I also don't take a position on politics necessarily. I'm fairly agnostic as it relates to R's versus D's, Republicans and Democrats.

But I do have to say that whether it's real or not, the Republicans have seized and continue to seize this mantle of being a party. Of common sense business, give people opportunities and not to malign the Democrats, but we just haven't seen that out of them in recent years. So I think that bodes well for our industry.

Tommy: Where do you see the cannabis industry [00:09:00] heading in 2025 from a regulations perspective?

Robert Hoban: I think it needs to loosen up a little bit. And I mean in terms of regulation. First of all I think operators in that space need to realize they do have to play on both sides. It's an absolute necessity. Why wait for changes instead of availing yourself to follow consumer behavior?

Consumers want These products. So you have to be able to play on both sides. Secondly, instead of advocating to eliminate competition, IE, the hemp sector, why not advocate for sensible regulations? And the hemp sector would go to bat for you on those regulations to loosen it, create more sales outlets instead of saying, I'm angry.

that a hemp derivative can be sold in a convenience store, why not advocate for what I call the Circle K model, or the Cookie's Corner model. I don't know if you remember a few years ago, Circle K came out and said, in Florida, Circle K, the convenience store chain, they came out and said, in Florida, we're going to Look for putting marijuana dispensation systems in place.

Of course, the regulations don't allow [00:10:00] for that in Florida right now. But the idea would be that you're, you have major interest that would like to see marijuana products sold in more outlets. And you need to reduce the tax burden on the consumer and the operator. The cost of compliance is over the top.

Now, it was the original deal that we, I was part of that. Made as an industry, 10, 12, sometimes 15 years ago, depending on where you are to say, let us sell these products. We'll pay as many taxes as you want. We'll comply with as many rules as you want. And that was the original deal, but that deal needs to be renegotiated towards a more flexible model.

And we have to stop thinking that dispensaries are the end all be all. People don't like going to dispensaries. Your average person does not want to go to a dispensary. They might go to a dispensary with their son, daughter, friend, otherwise, as an experience, but they don't like that experience on a regular basis.

So we have to stop thinking that we're going to shove [00:11:00] everything into dispensaries. Let's go the other direction. Let's loosen things up, reduce taxes. and allow these companies to sell more products to more people in more places. And that's a common sense unified plant approach from a policy perspective that I think can work.

It's just nobody's talking about it because it's a zero sum game. We're going to eliminate the hemp industry. We saw how that worked in Florida. We saw how the opposite side of eliminating the hemp industry is let's create monopolies in the individual States under the licensing. We saw how that worked in Florida with true leaves.

Initiative there that failed to and it was a high standard and I give everybody credit for doing it and it still speaks volumes that getting 50 some odd percent, not the 60 percent of the vote that people want this, but it's just not there yet. So you have to look at a whole plant solution. Now, the one thing I would note.

This is where things get a little bit complicated. If we're advocating for Schedule 3, and we're saying Schedule 3 is going to change the landscape, what does Schedule 3 do, Tommy? It creates a [00:12:00] supply chain standard, and a dispensation standard, that has to be medicinal based. Meaning, you have to produce these compounds to a medicinal standard.

You have to sell medicine to patients. It effectively guts any adult use system. If that state system wants to be compliant with a federal standard. So if you go back to a medical standard, many of the states that had medical marijuana programs before they went adult use, some states like Colorado, we still have both, side by side.

Some, stores can be both. Some have eliminated entirely, like Washington, where they just went, over the counter sales. My, my whole point is that if it goes to Schedule 3, You have to go back to a medical marijuana framework. That's not something that people are excited about.

But if you did do it with a severe pain catch all as one of the qualifying conditions, it becomes a quasi adult use system. And guess what also happens? You're not paying the 20. 30 percent sin [00:13:00] tax on adult use, you're paying regular sales tax on medicinal items, if any sales tax at all is applied. So that solves a problem.

It complies with federal government regulation. It solves a tax problem, and it solves a 280E problem. But I don't hear people talking about it because it's too scary to say we have to eliminate adult use and go back. Adult use requires descheduling, not rescheduling. And guess what the only thing that's descheduled is?

That's hemp and hemp derivatives. Dare I say, our hemp derivatives, we've seen alcohol companies go all in on beverages with, low dose 2, milligram THC beverages. Is that the new adult use? Hemp derived? Might be.

Tommy: You know, how can our listeners be a part of this change or be a part of, of the solution? What do you recommend?

Robert Hoban: It's a great, it's a really great question. I think that to have a dialogue in public forums is one thing. The marijuana industry is pretty tight, the cannabis [00:14:00] industry is pretty tight and pretty they show up in most states based on my experience whether you're operators or not, the enthusiast the culturalist, everybody in a sense.

participates, but they don't always see eye to eye. And that's a bit of a challenge, but Here's the thing. At the end of the day, we need to stop imposing our personal values. Just because I don't want a Delta 8 product. And I'm not saying I don't, I'm just saying, let's say I don't. I don't want it.

I'm a purist. I just want flour. I just use joints. Then what about the dab guy? The joint and the dab guy are not the same people. They're not. Not even close. And then, then you've got the extracts guy. Then you've got the converted compounds guy. My, my point is, follow consumer preferences and demands.

Consumers will tell you what they want the industry to be. We need to stop imposing our little sector of the world on this. Imagine if I was a craft beer snob 25 years ago, and I didn't have all the [00:15:00] outlets that I have now, and I just sat there the whole time and saying, We have to get rid of Pabst Blue Ribbon and Budweiser because it's not craft brew.

Guess what? That's beer to 75 percent of the population. Maybe 20 percent of us, or whatever the numbers are, it's smaller, that like craft brews. It's the same thing. If I'm a flower guy, I like my flower. If I'm a dab guy, I want my dab. But that doesn't mean dabs are the industry or flowers are the industry or that those people should say this is how the industry should be.

It has to be based on The aggregate of what consumers want, and I don't think the industry's ever done a very good job of following consumer behavior to lead in product development, sales and policy.

Tommy: You've been in this industry in so many different roles for such a long time. If you were to start a business in this industry today, what would you start?

Robert Hoban: Ingredients. Cannabinoids, this is going to make people roll over as well. Cannabinoids, Tommy, they're merely ingredients. [00:16:00] Cannabinoids are merely ingredients. And if you look at it from that perspective, that's what's it. The most successful cannabis companies in the country, maybe even in the world, if you look at real numbers, are not necessarily MSOs.

They're companies that are producing cannabinoids, isolated, pure, very pure, scientifically sound cannabinoids, and they're selling them to all sectors of the industry. If I'm a cannabinoid producer that produces Delta 9 maybe let's call it a bioidentical Delta 9. All sectors of the industry are using it right now, whether or not the regulations allow it because economics dictate it.

So my point is I would be in the ingredients supply side. I would also look at the international marketplace. There's a movement afoot internationally. That has seen a supply chain develop and it's responding to the very same consumer demands that we see in the U. S. It's just a little bit more finicky because you've got history and [00:17:00] very diverse and distinct cultural Positions and perspectives country by country in Europe and in Southeast Asia and South America and Latin America places like that.

So people look at it very differently. So I would look at supply chain participation, and maybe being an ingredient supplier and supply chain participation globally are not mutually exclusive. But that's where I would put my time and money. And, to a certain extent after I stopped practicing law.

In in March I focused on entering, I, I said, what do I really want to do? I want to actually play in this sandbox that I helped create over the last 15, 16 years instead of just servicing people. And I thought long and hard about it and I thought that the THC beverages, the hemp derived beverage sector was the place, but I also thought that was a little too narrow.

So when I started to examine. The cannabis supply chain from an international perspective and cannabinoids as ingredients that to me is the fastest growing sector and [00:18:00] it's the most impressive sector and that's why now I work in You know if I had to ask you what's the largest cannabis producing nation in the world?

I don't know if you'd answer morocco, but it is and it has been for a very long time So you're looking at a place where it's a kingdom it's a burgeoning location. They're hosting the world cup in 2030. You're talking about 56, 000 hectares. There's about two and a half acres for every hectare of annual cannabis production and that market, those trade routes already exist with some coaxing.

This might be the first place in the world where we've actually seen the illicit market. Transfer over to the commercial market. We saw it fail in California. We saw it fail just about everywhere. Because of pricing and taxation. I think Morocco has a chance to change that narrative. And when it does, That's data we go to the United Nations with, and then it's game over, because nobody can deny reforming [00:19:00] cannabis policy on a global scale, when you can see that you eliminate, basically, people that are outcasts of society, that are not included within culture, that are are seen as criminals and you integrate them into society, and not the way that we've tried to do it in the U.

S. In a sense, by going and getting a license and picking one side or the other, by Providing the momentum and the marketability to move everything from the illicit side into the commercial side. Might be a bit of a pipe dream, but I think you'll see the most significant percentage of transition in Morocco than you've seen anywhere else in the world.

And that's why I see it this way.

Tommy: What, what would your advice be to somebody in the marijuana industry that feels threatened by hemp? How do, how do we work together or how do we, how do we prosper together?

Robert Hoban: I, like I said, I think you just have to get over this surprise and I think people's jaws drop when they hear it. You mean to tell me that they can do this? At a fraction of the cost that [00:20:00] I have to do in this space and they can sell it anywhere, that's just not fair. You just have to get over that. Think about what happened when Uber came into town.

And, I don't know if you know anything about the taxi industry, and I know very little, but I do know this. That if you were a taxi driver in a particular city, where, you had to get a medallion. Think of New York City. That medallion was very expensive. And you passed it down to your family, through your friends.

You, you, that medallion meant something. Imagine when Uber came into town, and everybody with a car could all of a sudden register for Uber, and the medallion went from, 10x to a fraction of x in value. It happened. The same thing's happening. It's basically, when you, Eliminate the monopoly associated with the medallion or the state based licensure.

You have to realize that this is the way the market's going. What about hotels? They were always, regulated specifically, and now we can all rent an Airbnb anywhere we want at any time, and even cities and states that try to limit that have difficulty, because it's not always constitutional, whether you [00:21:00] can limit people's ability to rent out their home.

My point is, this is the way of the marketplace, especially when you throw technology in. So you have to stop with the, but we Put so much blood, sweat and tears to get here, get over that. That doesn't matter. You should be honored for that. You should be proud of that. You had the courage to do it. And you have the fortitude to have gotten through it.

Now you need to adapt and adopt. And you have to adopt the new thinking. And the new thinking is the cannabis industry is not just one, one aisle in the grocery store. Again, when I went to MJ BizCon a few weeks ago, I guess in December, many of us were there. And there's this picture of doom and gloom.

The industry's at its lowest point. Is it? That's not what I'm seeing when I think of Okay, cannabis industry, but I define the cannabis industry more broadly. I'm looking at all the aisles in the grocery store, not just one. Yes, one of those aisles, the dispensary system, the retail chain for high THC products that's state based.

It's down right now, and regulations don't help. But there is a way to get your mind around this notion [00:22:00] that Oh my god, I can't believe they're doing this to, oh my god. I think we should look at how to integrate this. Because a cannabis company in the future will have a supply chain that is producing plants.

Those plants will be used in a variety of different things. From animal feed and seeds all the way down to cannabinoids. production. And they'll have manufacturing and that same plant goes into the place and it's going to be manufactured in different ways. So it's a commoditization effect of a plant that is bound to happen.

In fact, it's probably what Jack Harer would have said he wanted to happen if he didn't, if he didn't eliminate, if he eliminated the romanticism from his ideals. You have to commoditize the plant to get it sold in as many places as possible. And that always means that you and I are going to have our choice of how we like to consume cannabinoids or cannabis, whether it's just because we like high protein seeds that are super food from the plant, or whether it's because we want to dab that is super concentrated and it's going to, Send us off to the moon for a few [00:23:00] hours.

So I think it's just embracing a redefinition and an evolution and understanding that history is bound to repeat itself.

Tommy: couldn't agree with you more that you, it's either adapt or die, really. And so there are states that have completely banned hemp altogether. I think that's, is that, that's California, right?

Robert Hoban: Well, California's got a hemp program, but they've effectively banned products for consumption. And that was in effect. And I know this because we were involved, we're involved in certain lobbying circles around the country that are somewhat influential. That, the marijuana sector got to the governor and said, you want to do this because it'll protect this.

And that may have been the knee jerk reaction or the short term thinking, but it wasn't exactly great thinking. Now. There are some states that are going to be primarily blue states that will ban hemp derivatives. And it becomes a slippery slope because then you're banning, all hemp consumables in a sense, unless you're [00:24:00] carefully worded.

So yes, some states will do that, but what my experience has been, particularly with Republicans in charge now at the federal level, I think that if you go into those states and say, look, do you want to send this revenue, those jobs? Back to the black market because just if you ban hemp products for sale in that state doesn't mean they're not being sold in that state just means that they're being produced elsewhere and brought in and sold in smoke shops in an unregulated fashion or maybe a regulated fashion.

Or you're simply creating a black market for those products because consumers are always going to find what they want and that's the marketplace. But yes, some states have banned it. Some states talk about banning these things. Texas is a big one right now. We have their lieutenant governor, Dan Patrick, who's very powerful, saying that that we need to ban this.

I think it was the state of Ohio recently that also put that on the legislative agenda. Missouri did that recently. But guess what happened in Missouri? In Missouri, MOCAN, the Missouri [00:25:00] Cannabis Trade Organization, I wrote an article about this got to got to the governor and said you've got to ban this stuff.

Because it's competing with us, you're going to undercut our industry. And guess what happened? Missouri, the home of Anheuser Busch. Sometimes somewhere. I imagine that governor got a call from higher ups and Anheuser Busch saying whoa. Alcohol sales are declining month over month, year after year all over the country.

We don't want to limit any ingredients into our products and quickly that position was reversed and the attorney general took a position. My point being is, yes, it's going to be a dogfight state by state unless and until the federal government takes control. But with the Republicans in charge and a and I think if we can find a way to be perhaps a more pragmatic, at least on this issue, Republican Party and Republican leadership, I do believe we can get somewhere.

I think the Democrats to a certain extent were hung up on social justice and righting the wrongs of the past, and I don't malign those things. Those things are extraordinarily important, but it never helped advance [00:26:00] the marijuana dispensary system or the marijuana sector in this country.

And even Schedule 3, aside from the 280E impact, I don't know if it advances that either, but kudos to the Biden administration for moving in that direction. And creating a democratic policy balance there, where I haven't seen the paper, but I'm allegedly pardoning thousands of people that had simple marijuana offenses in jail, and at the same time moving forward on cannabis policy reform.

And for the industry to sit back and say, Oh, it needed to be descheduled, not rescheduled. That's a legislative maneuver. That is not an agency maneuver. An agency is not going to take something, no matter what the science says. That produces an intoxicating effect. And I don't know if intoxicating is the word.

I'm just a lawyer. I'm not a scientist, but that's the word I hear used a lot. And then just say, it's not scheduled anymore. Unless they specifically move it to TTB like they did with alcohol and tobacco. But that was a legislative maneuver. So if we want federal descheduling across the board, [00:27:00] you're going to have to create room for cannabinoids as ingredients in pharmaceutical products because they're undoubtedly positioned for that.

And we want that, to be honest with you. I'm not so sure I want the pill that has the cannabinoids in it versus the natural product. But that's my choice. I don't have to preclude that from somebody else from using a pill that's generated by a pharmaceutical company that might have CBG in it in the future from a marijuana plant.

Point being is all of this stuff needs to be sorted out. We need to see what consumer behavior is. And I think that a couple more, I don't want to say generations, cycles of politicians is the right word, cycles. I think you'll start to see more and more favorable treatment. Think how far we've come in, What, 10, 15 years?

I've been involved in this 15 to 17 years. I can't believe how far the debate has come. Where, I was at a debate in in the University of Denver where I was teaching at the time. Mitt Romney was debating for the president. When he was running years ago, and somebody from the Cannabis, which was the Denver [00:28:00] Post Cannabis publication at the time said, Mr.

And the next cycles and cycles of politicians are going to increasingly look, I believe, favorably over the plant and see it, whether it's for economic reasons, social justice reasons. or just for reform reasons. And we'll see more and more progress in that regard. So I'm optimistic most people are not, but I think you just got to zoom out a little bit and you just got to poke around.

Tommy: I, that this administration, I've never had more hope with this administration coming in with RFK and his stance and even Pam Bondi as an AG, I know that she, she had a history with cannabis in Florida for whatever reason, but you know, I think that things have turned [00:29:00] around with her too.

Robert Hoban: At least she's not at Jeff Sessions like Drug Warrior, right? We could have gone in that direction and, sometimes AGs go in that direction because they're politically compelled to pick people. But I think, and some of the folks I work with, they happen to be regulars at Mar a Lago and they're involved in those discussions and with those people.

And there's an enthusiasm and an energy that seems, at least from my perspective, to be very different from Republican administrations in the past, where the focus really is on trying to shake up Washington. And I don't It doesn't matter what you think about politics, but isn't shaking up Washington a good thing?

No matter what? This whole drain the swamp thing that never happened and that's an old account. What did happen? They shrunk the code of federal regulations by hundreds of thousands of pages. Nobody talks about that. That's a good thing. That's reform. And if it's a little bit more overt now because he doesn't have to worry about running again and it's a little bit more over the top.

Yes. Some things that we like are going to be take or we feel like we [00:30:00] need are going to be taken away. Probably environmental oversight and regulations, but guess what? Those are agency functions under the executive branch that if and or when the next Democrat administration is in place, they can quite easily reinstall that or.

If there's the pendulum swings back towards Democrat policies, then they'll control Congress and be able to get something passed in that direction. But I see the focus being less about, restricting individual behavior and more about let's reform the government and, give every bat, put some more money in people's pockets and just move on with it.

And maybe that's pie in the sky. And again I'm not a political person, but that's the way I see it.

Tommy: I, there's a lot of optimism and, you know, we'll wait and see but before I let you go, how can. Our listeners find you?

Robert Hoban: It's easy to find me I'm my, my website, bobhoban. com. My email is bob at bobhoban. com. Or gps. global is our consulting firm. [00:31:00] Greenbridge Proven Strategies.

Tommy: Thank you so much for coming on. I've learned so much and we've got to have you back on. There's a lot, the cannabis industry, one year, I feel like 10 years, 10 years of news happened in a year. So please, we've got to have you back. And you know, you, you're, there's probably a lot that our listeners can learn on what's happening globally. In the global market.

Robert Hoban: I think it's so critical. Think about this, by the way, just one last note. The United Nations, all right? Remember, in November of 2020, during COVID, the United Nations elected to reorder their classification of marijuana and allow for the concept of medical marijuana to be a thing. Now, they're in the process through the Committee on Narcotic Drugs and I've appeared in front of these agencies before, these subcommittees.

They're moving towards creating regulations that do that. What was the reason that this happened? The only reason it happened in [00:32:00] November 2020 is because the U. S. finally decided to vote for it. Because the U. S. is so powerful and influenced in that regard. My point being is this. If the U. S.

externally is pushing for cannabis reform by and through the United Nations, whether that's done through our president or not, it's done through the State Department and others, and, the ambassador to the U. N., so forth and so on. That policy change will come back to roost in the United States ultimately, but not until the politicians have had a chance to have enough to use it as election day fodder over the next couple of cycles.

We just have to look at it like a television show. Like it is House of Cards, because it is. And we have to understand that as a practical matter, the U. S. has endorsed cannabis reform globally. By and through the United Nations, and that movement is happening slowly, but it's surely happening.

Outro: Thanks for listening to the Kaya Cast podcast. We hope you enjoyed the show. Don't forget to subscribe to our podcast and your favorite podcast app, or visit our website to access the [00:33:00] full archive of episodes from the show.

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The Politics of Cannabis: Robert Hoban on Power, Policy, and Progress

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The Politics of Cannabis: Robert Hoban on Power, Policy, and Progress

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